England captain Marlie Packer is eyeing up three consecutive wins against New Zealand, with the Red Roses set for a clash with the Black Ferns this Sunday. This fixtures comes in the second round of WXV out in Vancouver, Canada, and England are out to retain the inaugural title they first won on New Zealand soil last Autumn.
England’s previous two meetings with the Black Ferns have been resounding successes, with serious momentum being built towards next year’s Women’s Rugby World Cup. The Red Roses defeated New Zealand in the 2023 WXV finale last November (33-12), and followed this up with their recent exhibition Test win (24-12), at the newly rechristened Allianz Stadium.
Packer believes that there is ‘not so much aura’ surrounding the previously revered Black Ferns, given England’s recent record of success against them. Couple this with the Pacific Nations Four defeat to Canada in May, and the shocking loss to underdogs Ireland in the WXV opener, and New Zealand have started to show their human side on the run up to the World Cup. Speaking in a Red Roses media conference from their hotel in Vancouver, Packer said;
“For me personally, I have played New Zealand quite a few times in my career. They seem to have an aura about them, they don’t lose, if the ball drops to the floor, the bounce will go back to them, everything seems to be on their side on a match day.
“But actually, look, the more regular we’re getting to play them, it’s not like they win, then we win. We can get a good feel of how to beat them, and how we want to play against them. It’s not just a one off. We’re getting to see them play more regularly. So actually, I think for myself and the rest of the group, there’s not so much aura around them that ‘they’re invincible’.
“As a forward unit, we are as good as them. We are better than them. Our mindset is changing, it’s about a mindset within a squad, within a player. We have to flick that switch when it comes to playing them, but have the thoughts that ‘we are better than them’, one to 30 players, out here in Vancouver.”
Packer then turned her attention towards the latest side to record a win against New Zealand, as Ireland have come on a meteoric rise within the past 12 months. Rewind the clock back to 2023, and Ireland won the WXV3 title, after beating the minnow trio of Kazakstan, Colombia and Spain. Scott Bemand’s side then progressed for a third placed finish in the 2024 Women’s Six Nations, thus qualifying them for 2024 WXV1.
“It’s massive. But that was the whole point of this tournament, to give these teams opportunities to play the likes of New Zealand, the top tiers. But then also down in WXV2 and WXV3, there’s the opportunity, for the growth in the game and to make it competitive games. You’re playing someone in WXV3 against a team from WXV1, with one team running away with it. It’s really hard for a team to learn from that.
“Whereas I think the teams are being challenged, learning and growing throughout the tournament. The fact that the competition is, a year old now, people have know more of what WXV is and how exciting was it. The fact that Ireland were in WXV3 last year to then jump up to WXV1 and beat the current reigning World Champions, that’s pretty epic.”
Packer was flanked by her England Assistant Coach Louis Deacon on the media call, with the former interim Red Roses coach talking the press through the much changed match day squad. John Mitchell finalised a total of 10 changes from the team that handed the United States a 61-21 hammering a week ago, and Deacon believes the match day squad set to run out is England’s strongest option across the board.
“It’s the strongest, we believe, for the game.” Deacon said. “This weekend, we’ve made quite a few changes from the USA game that was always in the plan. You know, we travel a long way. Everyone has to have an opportunity to play, so that’s what we’ve done. But we believe this is the strongest combination for the game at the weekend.”
Packer was amongst one of the 10 alterations to the squad, as the Saracens skipper sat out of the opening WXV win against the USA. Packer handed the England captaincy over to her back row partner Alex Matthews, and the number eight impressed all onlookers with a Player of the Match performance. Packer is excited to once again be back in the fold, but was full of praise for the Gloucester-Hartpury star’s leadership last week.
“Alex is a really well respected member of our squad, when she does speak, people listen. Alex doesn’t like speaking often, so it was more of a case of making sure that I gave all the information that she needed, and she felt comfortable when when needing to speak.
“But I think she did the role fantastically, and actually, on the pitch, she just led by example, and that’s how she got Player of the Match again. She’s playing some unreal rugby at the moment. Sometimes the best kind of leadership is just, follow my actions, follow my lead. I think she did a great job there.
“For me, coming back into the squad this week, it’s going to be another tough game against New Zealand. But just for me, I need to go out there, play and enjoy it. Don’t put too much stress on it, because, if you’re playing with a smile on your face then you’re playing your best rugby.”
Elsewhere in the squad there is a milestone cap set to be won, as Hannah Botterman has been named to start in her 50th England appearence. The Bristol Bears prop is a real fan favourite within the Red Roses squad, with Packer delighted to see her ‘absolute character’ of a teammate rack up the half century.
“She’s an absolute character off the field. A real special one, she lights up a room when she she walks into it. The only time when you don’t see Botts happy is if the food is not correct or she has to wait for it!
“She’s a great player. I’ve watched her come from Saracens, being called into the England squads really early on because we had prop injuries. She’s just developed her game and grown over that time. She’s a really young player (25), but to reach 50 caps at the age she has and the way she’s playing at the moment, I take my hat off to the dedication that she’s she’s put in.
“She’s had few knock backs in her career. She’s picked up some big injuries. She’s had to work on herself in some areas, but she’s taken that all in her stride. She’s really grown from from that and taking every opportunity she’s been given.”
“We do mark the 50th cap. The 50 caps come around a bit more often than what 100 caps do, it’s pretty similar to the 100 cap. It’s like what I call a ‘mushroom cap’, which is silver, and then it will have the date on it and the game. That gets presented to Botts. We just make it special for her, and she’ll also run out first on the match day.”
Joining Packer upon the England flanks will be Morwenna Talling, as the Sale Sharks hard-hitter continues to break down barriers for the North Easterly club. Talling is the sole member of the Sharks within the match day 23, and has been picked over highly rated Exeter flanker Maddie Feaunati. Packer and Deacon both expressed how impressed they have been with Talling’s recent efforts, with Packer believing that her back row partner has ‘got it all’.
“She’s physical, she carries hard, and she makes her tackles.” Deacon said. “I think playing the Black Ferns, that’s what we need to do. We know the Black Ferns will always come back stronger from disappointment, history tells us that. So we’re expected a really tough game this weekend.”
“The way attributes she brings on the pitch, her defence, she’s physical, the way she carries the ball. She’s got it all, but in that physical capacity.” Packer said. “She’s such a lovely human off the pitch, and really well-rounded and grounded. We haven’t got many Sale players, but she definitely flies the flag really high. Her standards is what she goes by, it’s really high in itself.”
“All selections to play for the Red Roses are tough.” Deacon continued. “Our selection debates sometimes go on and on. We change from one player to the next quite frequently, until we sort of settle on, what we believe is that best combination.
“To have both of them (Talling and Feaunati) in the squad is really exciting. Like I mentioned before about combinations and being able to change, you may see them on the pitch at the same time. So just really exciting to have those quality players.”
Rounding off the changes in the Red Roses camp, Holly Aitchison and Helena Rowland return to the starting back line, with Emily Scarratt named amongst the replacements this time around. There is a full change in the front row, as Botterman, Amy Cokayne and Maud Muir are the preferred scrummagers for the first half.
“Scaz (Emily Scarratt) has got a massive amount of experience, and to have a player that quality on the bench to come on change a game, bring impact, is amazing. Scaz will just be Scaz. She’s got the experience. She can do incredible things on a rugby field. So we’re just looking for her to do that.”